POSTSCRIPT

Author’s note: I asked Jerry Ray these questions following the death of his older brother James Earl Ray. This postscript interview took place over an extended period of time.

GABRIEL: One of the more controversial facts to emerge from the investigation was the involvement or association between you, your brother James, and Mr. Stoner. What can you tell me about the self-proclaimed segregationist and notorious racist J.B. Stoner?

JERRY RAY: First of all, Mike, I’m going to tell you about Stoner. And a lot of people’s always confused about that because they thought me and Stoner, you know, was real close and all this stuff.

And I bad-mouthed Stoner, but he did do a lot for me over the years, but I haven’t had no contact with him since he got out of prison.

I talked to him once on the phone back in … he was out of prison. That was in ’92. I haven’t talked to him since 1992. I never had heard of a person name of J.B. Stoner until Stoner went in to see James back in ’68 ... when James was being held in jail when Arthur Hanes was representing him.

And how that all came about, James said he never had heard of Stoner, either, until ... when he was arrested in London, England after the assassination ... the Knights of States Rights Party ... that’s who Stoner represents.

In fact, he was the States Rights Party. Stoner formed that group. It was a racist group, hating black men and Jews. It was also called the National States Rights Party. Anyway, he got a lot of publicity because he put out a thing that he would represent James Earl Ray free.

The Knights of States Rights Party and that made news across the United States, that he would represent him free. And this was before James had an attorney.

J.B. STONER of NATIONAL STATES RIGHTS PARTY

FEBRUARY 16, 1977 – J.B. Stoner, chairman of the National States Rights Party, is flanked by its “ Thunderbolt ” flag in his Marietta, Georgia office Wednesday. Frederick Cowan of New Rochelle, N.Y., who killed five persons and himself Monday, was identified by a city official as a member of the States Rights party. Stoner said it is not the policy of the party to identify its membership. Photograph reproduced with permission of AP/Wide World Photos.

And what James did ... when I went out and did that lie detector test with F. Lee Bailey ... I got it on tape. James’ first attorney that he tried to get was F. Lee Bailey, when he was arrested in London, England.

His barrister — that’s what they call them in England, an attorney — they had contacted F. Lee Bailey, and F. Lee Bailey said he couldn’t represent James on account of it would be a conflict because he’s a friend of the King family.

So, what James had is a barrister first ... he asked F. Lee Bailey to represent him, and F. Lee Bailey turned it down. Then he had contacted Art Hanes, and Art Hanes contacted William Bradford Huie, and that’s how he got Art Hanes.

And at the time, I was working in Chicago, ’cause I quit my job when he got arrested. And he had never heard of J.B. Stoner before.

Then when James got back to the United States, he was in jail there in Memphis, and that had made news, you know about Stoner willing to represent him free and all this stuff.

So, what he did, he wrote a Stoner a letter and requested that he come over and see him. He didn’t want to represent him as a criminal attorney ’cause he had one. He had Art Hanes.

But all these stories was in these magazines and newspapers and that. He asked Stoner if he’d file a libel suit ... against these stories coming up. And so, when Stoner got to see him ... Stoner wants all the publicity he can get for his own party.

So, he gave a big interview outside the courthouse and all this, you know, telling about this and that, and about James wanting to file libel suits and that. I remember it was on the news.

Then Art Hanes spoke up the next day and said, well, if Stoner comes in on the case, then he’s gonna resign because he wouldn’t work on no case where Stoner was involved at all, see. So, that was the end of that because then James contacted Stoner and told him he didn’t... you know, he didn’t want him to file no libel suit over nothing.

That stayed that way until he got Percy. We got Percy Forman. Then he got ... when Forman pled him guilty, he didn’t have no attorney, then he wrote Judge Battle that letter on his own, no more than he got to Nashville, asked him to take that letter for a motion for a trial, then he would get an attorney, see.

So, then he wrote to Stoner. First, he sent me to New Orleans. I went down to New Orleans and tried to get an attorney. He had Forman give me $500, see. And so ... he agreed to plead guilty, but he had to give me $500 ’cause he wanted me to go down there and try to get an attorney.

In fact, James had me ... a lot of people thought, you know, that when Foreman pleaded James guilty … when James agreed to the guilty plea, in a contract, James said he’d agree to plea if Foreman give me $500. And that was written in the guilty plea contract.

And a lot of people thought I wanted ... you know that he’d give me $500 ’cause I was poor and needed the money. But what that was for, was to get a lawyer right then, see, ’cause he thought he could re-open the case.

They wouldn’t let him change attorneys, and they told him if he fired Foreman ... that he had to go to trial with a public defender.

GABRIEL: James told me that the government threatened to arrest you and your brother John, in addition to your father, if he pleaded innocent. But I was not aware of the public defender.

JERRY RAY: He didn’t want a public defender ’cause that’d be as bad as pleadin’ guilty, and ’cause that was Hugh Stanton later became the prosecutor down there. And he worked for the State all his life.

So anyway, he had that $500 to ... James told me, “ Go to New Orleans. ” I went down right after the guilty plea to try to get another attorney to open the case up.

James asked me to go to the Bunny Lounge... that’s where he’d met Raoul at all the time … in the Bunny Lounge on Canal Street. And so, he told me to check that out, and he told me, “ Go back to St. Louis and call up that guy named Kent Courtney. ”

He had never met Courtney. Courtney published some kind of a conservative tabloid, or newspaper. James says, “ Call up Kent Courtney and make arrangements to see him and try to see if he knows an attorney that will represent me and try and get a new trial. ”

And this is just before the guilty plea. James pleaded guilty when I got back to St. Louis. The morning James pleaded guilty, he wrote ... ’cause Stoner, see, Stoner ... I’ll back up.

When Arthur Hanes, who was James’ first attorney back in ’68 ... Stoner paid to put out a paper ... they worked together ... run a story that day where they would defend James free of charge. And that made news.

James had never heard of Stoner before that, but when, after that came out in the paper, he wrote Stoner a little letter. This is in mid-’68. So, Stoner went over to see James.

James wasn’t gonna have him represent him in the criminal trial, but he was gonna have him represent him on libel suits, ’cause all these stories is comin’ out, he’s gonna have to file lawsuits against them.

And ... so that made nationwide news, you know, when Stoner went in there. And so, Arthur Hanes, James’ attorney, was in Alabama at the time, and he came and said, well, if Stoner got involved in the case then he was droppin’ out because he wouldn’t work on James’ case as long as Stoner was involved.

But anyway, after the guilty plea, after Foreman pleaded James guilty in ’69, he had Stoner’s address, so he wrote Stoner a letter.

That’s how Stoner contacted an attorney by the name of Robert Hill. Then I also had contacted Richard J. Ryan in Memphis. I had contacted him when Hanes was representin’ him.

Stoner and Hill and Richard Ryan went over to see James shortly after the guilty plea. And that made the news all over.

I went back to the hotel and I took a little trip that evening down on Canal Street. And I went in the Bunny Lounge. It wasn’t no classy place, but it was ... it was no dive, you know, it was a pretty nice bar. I was in there twice.

And ... so I went down to the Bunny Lounge and farted around. They had two barmaids. They just didn’t have one, you know. Like I say, it wasn’t no dive; it was a pretty nice place ... it wasn’t no exclusive place, you know, but it was an above average bar.

I spent a couple hours in there, and that’s where I found out that Randy Rosenson actually was Randolph Rosenson. See, James and ... James and this Raoul guy was meetin’ there all the time.

James didn’t know who ... when he found that card in there — Randy Rosenson. He didn’t know who that guy was or nothin’, see ... by this name. ’Course, all them guys used different names.

Later on ... I can’t remember which ... it wasn’t very long after that ... maybe a year after that or somethin’ ... he had me fly down to New Orleans again.

James said, “ Go to the library and get them microfilms out and ... ” See, this is only a couple years afterwards, after the assassination ... and so, they got all their microfilms.

And I looked at all of the newspapers from the time James first went to New Orleans up until, you know, the assassination. And a little bit after tryin’ to see if Randolph Rosenson’s name was in the paper, but somewhere or another I found out he was dealin’ in drugs.

And so, then I go back to the Bunny Lounge. And the barmaids, they remember Randy ... we just called him Randy Rosenson. And I got talkin’ to her, this one barmaid, and she said, “ Well, ” she said, “ he don’t come in here that much. ” She said, “ He lives in Miami. ” And so, I got what information I got.

I was back and forth from Stoner, then I worked up in Illinois and that, so that’s the reason, like I say, we planned all them escapes.

The reason I stayed around where Stoner’s at so long, when we tried them escapes. So, I think it was in ’77 ... it might have been ’76.

Anyway, I came down to see James. He was at NASHVILLE Prison then. And James had me to fly down to Miami. And he told me, “ Go to the ... go to a library and try to find out ... or get a phone book, and try to find out where Randolph Rosenson lives at and get a picture of him. ”

So, I flew down to Miami, Florida. So, I get a hotel, or a motel room, then I go down on Biscayne Boulevard and fool around. And I think that’s where the library’s at, if I remember right, on Biscayne Boulevard. And I find out where Randolph Rosenson’s living at.

I finally got a picture of him. It wasn’t a real clear picture ’cause it was taken from the street. And I got it back to James in Nashville.

And James says, yeah, he’s seen that guy. He said he knows who he was now. That wasn’t Raoul. It wasn’t Raoul, but he’s another guy that would go in there ... they’d meet together, the three of them, see. That was one of Raoul’s friends.

And, like I say, well, later on we found out ... I don’t know if he was ... he probably just worked for Raoul, you know, runnin’ drugs and that, you know. But he had been arrested for narcotics before, I found that out.

You know, another strange thing, we never could figure out why this happened. Maybe just maybe coincidence. But when James escaped from Brushy Mountain Prison in June of 1977, Randolph Rosenson was at a motel in Knoxville, on the day he escaped.

We never could figure that out why. It must have just been coincidence because if there was anything goin’ on, James would’a told me, see.

That came out later that Randolph Rosenson was at a motel in Knoxville the day James escaped from Brushy Mountain Prison. I did a lot of checking on this Randolph Rosenson.

We know his last name was Jewish — Rosenson — and we was trying to find out if he was connected to any of them parties, you know, like the JDL or some party, you know, that can do a hit … that type of thing.

GABRIEL: When you say the JDL … you are obviously referring to the Jewish Defense League. But when you go on to say “ some party, you know, that can do a hit ” … this sounds like you are describing a professional murder for hire. Made men and organized crime … do you mean mob guys?

JERRY RAY: We were trying to find out. I made a couple trips to New Orleans, and James used to meet him at the Bunny Lounge there on Canal Street in New Orleans.

And I found out then, James had his name Randy Rosenson, but his name was Randolph Erwin Rosenson.

But, apparently, he didn’t have no connections to none of them parties or ... you know, I checked out the JDL and different parties, and he didn’t have no affiliation with them. But everything I could learn about him, he just peddled narcotics and was a narcotics trader and that, you know.

James would always tell me, don’t use your regular phone because, you know, they might track your number down, see, and then find out what’s goin’ on.

Because he didn’t know if the government was behind it … the U.S. government behind it. If the ... who was behind this killing of King. And so, he had me check.

Coded Message sent by JAMES EARL RAY to his brother JERRY RAY on December 13^th, 1973. The letter message included what James said about him not using his real phone number. (Author collection)

JERRY RAY: And so, anyway, he wrote Stoner a letter, and Stoner got Robert Hill, and then Richard Ryan came in on it. But... then Stoner went over and took the case ... that’s in Nashville. I drove down and met Stoner ... first time I’d ever seen Stoner.

Once Stoner got in on the case, then James got rid of him shortly after he got on the case because Stoner would make all them racist statements.

It’d make it look like James [LAUGHTER] … James was the same as Stoner, see, because they always would say, “ Birds of a feather flock together. ”

So, shortly after Stoner got in on the case ... James had given him my phone number ... he called me up. He called me up and asked me if I’d fly down to Savannah.

GABRIEL: The Rambling Wrecks of Georgia Tech … most of my family are from Savannah and Atlanta. I was in Savannah for a brief stay in 1969. I was working in my Uncle Bill’s store assembling Schwinn bicycles for $ 1.25 an hour. Where were we?

JERRY RAY: People used to wonder, they always kinda put me as a racist, too, because I go down to Stoner all the time. And I went down to Stoner because he was helping me try to get James out of prison.

I wouldn’t give a goddamn if Louis Farrakhan or Saddam Hussein or whoever tried to help me get him out of prison. I’d work with them, see. And when I was down to see Stoner, it put people off ’cause I would never make any speeches or do any of that stuff that Stoner did.

That’s why I kept goin’ down to Stoner all the time ’cause we was tryin’ to get James escaped down there. And in fact, Stoner’s the only one knew about the escapes and ... ’cause I would confide in him.

And that one time James tried to escape and I was out there by the church, I had a ... Stoner gave me a .45 caliber gun and he give me some money and everything else to take over there, you know.

That’s when they caught James, before he got out ’cause if James did get out, he had a .45 and he had a few hundred dollars to go on. So, you work with whoever you have to work with when you’re trying to do something.

But ’course the bank robberies, they tried to indict me for them, see, and there wasn’t enough evidence to indict me. I only robbed a couple of them. I can talk about all that bullshit now … ’cause the statute of limitations has expired. [LAUGHTER]

A lot of people wonder, well, why, you know, you keep going down to Stoner’s all the time, you know, if I didn’t, you know, believe like him, see ... why would I be around him all the time?

Well, Stoner ... I know Stoner ... I trust Stoner ’cause Stoner’s not a phony, see. And whether you agree with him or disagree with him or believe like he believes or don’t believe like he believes. He actually believes that stuff, and if you tell him something, you can trust him. It’ll never get out, see.

And I never trust nobody but him, and he knew every time I’d go back to Savannah or Marietta when he moved to Marietta, we’d have ... me and James would have these escape attempt plots fixed up, see.

Whenever James would plan an escape, I would tell Stoner all about them. In fact, at one time, he was planning an escape, and I was supposed to pick him up out in front of that church out there close to the prison.

I got a .45 caliber gun from Stoner and we taped it under the car, and I got some other stuff I had taped under the car in case the police shook it down, you know, they wouldn’t find them.

They caught James … they caught him before he made it out. And I was waiting outside by the church, and I didn’t know he got caught. I waited another half an hour and then I went back to the hotel. Then it came on the news that … James Earl Ray just got caught trying to escape.

And so, the next day I went out there to the prison and ... the warden knew I was there to help him, see, and he said, “ Well, you can’t help him now, Jerry. We caught him. ” But they couldn’t do anything to me, see. And most people wanted him to escape anyway. I think the warden was hoping he’d get away, ’cause none of them believed he was guilty.

I’d keep going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And every time I’d be down there, James would try to escape, you know. And so, it was convenient for me, for me and for Stoner both … because I’d go down there and he’s wanting to see James escape.

He wanted James to escape... he thought it would start up racial tensions and that, and I wanted him to escape to get him out of there.

Pretty soon I’d go back up to Illinois and go to work. He tried a couple of escapes while I was up here. In fact, I was up there in ’77, and like I told you … I flew down there and left that bag of stuff down there and had to fly right back, you know. I only had a day off. That’s when I had that Chicago Tribune guy fly me out.

GABRIEL: J.B. Stoner represented you when you shot that gentleman from the Nazi party if I recall. Care to critique his courtroom abilities?

JERRY RAY: [LAUGHTER] Only thing Stoner do is talk racial talk and stuff like that. He helped on the escape and stuff, but he’s not gonna do no work ’cause he’s about the laziest human bein’ I ever been around in my life.

And ... he was a good attorney back in the old days, like the ’50s and that, but he’s just on the racial cases, see, ’cause he gets people steamed up over racial cases. Of course, them times done passed.

At the time Stoner was based in Savannah ... and James wanted me to work with him while he was preparing James’ motion for a trial. So, I flew down.

Stoner called me up and I went back down to Savannah. Then, when I got in that shooting thing, when Don Black, the Nazi guy, belonged to the Nazi Party … tried to burglarize the place and I shot him.

Then, I had to go to trial and of course I got acquitted, you know. And because the guy pulled a gun on me. And the jury was only out an hour and they came back and the first thing they said was, “ Not guilty. ”

And that was an interesting trial that Stoner ... I helped pick the jury, and so ... [LAUGHTER] ... they had to poll the jury, you know, because Stoner’s so radical with his beliefs, a lot of people despised him. You got, you know, other real strong racists that would go along with him on anything. So, it’s a mixture there, of getting the right people on the jury.

So, when I got down ... and I was sitting at the table when he picked the jury ... and we agreed on ... me and him agreed on who to put on the jury. And so, they got down ... like I say, so many people didn’t like him ... that they got down to three people on the jury.

They had some white woman ... she’s probably about 50 years old. And you could tell she hated Stoner with a passion.

Then, they had another guy ... you could tell he was against Stoner. And they had a black guy. Young black guy going to law school. So, I told Stoner I wanted a black on the jury. So, you had eleven whites on and it’s down to them three.

Stoner said, “ No, no, we can’t put no black on the jury. ” And so, I said, “ Them damn two white people hate you. They hate you with a damn passion. ”

So, it was the young black guy, he was going to law school. So, Stoner asked him. He said, “ Well, could you, could you render a fair verdict for Jerry Ray even though I’m representing him? ”

The black guy said, “ I don’t care, you know, what you believe in or he believes in. ” He said, “ I’m voting guilty or innocent according to the evidence. ”

I told Stoner, I insisted, “ Put him on the damn jury. ” And Stoner said, “ It’d make me look bad, I have a black, ” because he always had all-white jury. I said, “ Look, if a person hates you, ’cause you can tell that woman up there hates you, she gonna hang up the damn jury, see. ”

I said, “ The black guy over there, he don’t give a damn, he’s going to law school. He’s gonna vote by evidence. ”

So, Stoner didn’t like it but he thought he had to put the black on the jury, and the jury went out and the black guy voted not guilty along with the other people, ’cause I was not guilty. The guy pulled a damn gun on me, see.

Burglarized the office and I caught him and I got a gun and he pulled a gun on me and I shot him. Don Black was his name. He belonged to the American Nazi Party up in ... I forget, in Virginia someplace.

He came down pretending to be ... he wanted to campaign for Stoner. Stoner was running for governor at the time. And, yeah, the black guy shook hands with me after ... I went out there and talked to the jury, you know.

To me all that racist stuff is crazy, see. You know, I don’t ... Stoner knows that I didn’t agree with his policies and that, but I would never bad-mouth him or nothin’ like that. But I would never go out and make speeches.

I told you that Stoner was incompetent. He was an incompetent attorney. He wouldn’t do no work on the case, you know. He was ... back in the ’40s and ’50s, that kinda bullshit worked, you know.

He’d get up there and just holler, “ Nigger, nigger, nigger, ” and all that kinda stuff, but people have gotten over that kind of stuff now, and they’re not gonna acquit you for that kind of bullshit, you know.

In fact, I might have told you this before, I don’t know. But when they tried Stoner in Alabama for that church bombing, they knew they couldn’t get a conviction. They didn’t have no evidence against him, see. And the only way they could get a conviction, if he convict himself.

J.B. STONER SURRENDERS

White supremacist J.B. Stoner waves a Confederate flag after being released on $10,000 bond on charges of bombing a church in Birmingham, Alabama in 1958. Stoner surrendered to authorities in Marietta, Georgia after being indicted by a grand jury in Birmingham earlier this week. Photograph used with permission of AP/Wide World Photos.

And his attorney ... I forget his name now. He’s an Alabama attorney. He didn’t want Stoner to take the witness stand ’cause he knew they couldn’t get a conviction. But Stoner is, you know, like I say, he’s not all there. And he had to get on the witness stand. [LAUGHTER]

It was embarrassing. I talked to several people that was at the trial, and it was embarrassing because he got on the witness stand and that opened everything up. Then they could go into all this racial stuff that he had.

They had mostly a young jury, and Stoner, you know, being he’s paranoid like he is and that, he wants a white jury. So, he’s up there, when he gets on the witness stand, they said, “ Did you write in your paper that the only good nigger is a dead nigger? ” and he’d say, “ Yeah, ” and all this stuff.

Then they’d bring all this stuff out about the Jews and that. And the jury’s just shaking their head. They can’t believe what he’s saying, see. And so, after the trial, they convicted him.

And the judge, the judge himself, made a comment that he convicted himself. Even the judge said if he hadn’t took the witness stand, he wouldn’t got convicted.

But like I say, he’s an incompetent attorney, and that’s why, like I told you, when I stood trial down in Savannah, Georgia, for shooting at that Nazi guy.

I got acquitted on it because I was innocent. But if I fooled around with him, I’d got a hung jury, see. Because most people’s are not honest. They don’t vote about the evidence; they vote on their beliefs.

You can’t go by race and all that, you have to go by trying to figure out if a person will give an honest verdict, you know. And I knew that black guy would. I could tell that he would give an honest verdict.

I told Posner that Stoner was incompetent. But I respect him because he got beliefs, like I respect Louis Farrakhan. He got beliefs. But these people like David Dukes are just in it for the money … I have no respect for people like that at all ’cause they’re what you call whores.

They take whatever side where the money’s coming at, you know. They don’t have no beliefs at all. So, I don’t ever care if a guy’s a right-wing or a left-wing or in the middle of the road, as long as he’s got some kind of beliefs. Like I say, even if they’re a hundred percent opposite of mine.

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